Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Video in Science SFLO transcript

We had 3 talks yesterday at the Sept 10, 2007 SciFoo Lives On session on Video in Science. There were about 16 people and the discussion was lively with a lot of Q&A about the major services presented: Bioscreencast, SciVee and YouTube.

I was also pleased to see Lali, the researcher I met over the weekend who put up the first poster in the Chem/BioFoo area. She has blogged about her experience entering Second Life as a scientist and trying to understand what can be done there that is meaningful to her interests.

Also see other reports of this session:



[9:00] You: hi everybody
[9:00] You: thanks for coming
[9:00] Vishwaroop Baroque: hello horace
[9:00] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I am on a crummy wireless connection, so tend to get stuck *grins*
[9:00] You: we have 3 speakers today
[9:00] You: on the use of video in science
[9:00] You: after the talks if you want to hang around to look at posters
[9:00] You: I'm sure presenters will stay
[9:01] You: please get us started Berci
[9:01] Berci Dryke: thank you, Jean-Claude!
[9:01] Berci Dryke: Nice to see so many participants again!
[9:02] Berci Dryke: our first speaker is Deepak Singh from Bioscreencast who is also the author of the http://www.mndoci.com blog
[9:02] Berci Dryke: Deepak, please present your service!
[9:02] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Thanks Berci
[9:02] Zaldar Rhode is Online
[9:02] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Hi Folks ... today I wanted to spend a few minutes talking about video in science and why we started Bioscreencast
[9:03] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Actually Hari aka Vishwaroop, who is in here is the main culprit
[9:03] Vishwaroop Baroque: hi guys ...its good to see you all here
[9:04] WhiteWizard Chemistry: In recent years, thanks to broadband, RSS and Flash, multimedia on the internet has really taken a huge leap. I think YouTube pretty much personifies this
[9:04] WhiteWizard Chemistry: But also live shows like the Chris Pirillo Show, which I believe will be the next step
[9:04] WhiteWizard Chemistry: And science has taken steps in this direction. You have the Nature podcast, which will hopefully include video some day
[9:05] WhiteWizard Chemistry: and SciTalks captures presentations, often from the Google Tech talks and other scientific conferences
[9:05] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Then we have JoVE and SciVee. I will let SciVee describe their service
[9:05] WhiteWizard Chemistry: But essentially I see JoVE and SciVee as a wonderway way to present science somewhat formally through video. And I am looking forward to creativity :)
[9:05] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome Hilena Capalini. You have been counted.
[9:06] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome Icabad Vallejo. You have been counted.
[9:06] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Bioscreencast on the other hand is a service that is inspired by Jon Udell and his use of screencasting, which some people in this room already use for teaching and other purposes
[9:06] Vishwaroop Baroque is Offline
[9:07] WhiteWizard Chemistry: A lot of us have knowledge, often better than can be found in manuals and instructional web pages. We can share it and add to it. Video is just a means to do so, a powerful one.
[9:07] Berci Dryke: please give us time with the slides, we have to load them :)
[9:07] Zen Zeddmore is Online
[9:07] Zaldar Rhode is Offline
[9:07] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Sure thing
[9:08] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome Krystine Qinan. You have been counted.
[9:08] Troy McLuhan: If you hover your cursor over the slide image, that increases its load priority
[9:08] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Bioscreencast is essentially one way for anyone who knows how to use a piece of software or a web service to capture their actions on screen, add a narrative and share with their peers
[9:09] WhiteWizard Chemistry: The hope is that if you ever wanted to find out how to learn to use a piece of software or share your expertise, you could easily upload something there and others could consume it, comment on it, and perhaps add their own take
[9:09] WhiteWizard Chemistry: So what you are seeing now is the front page. It's your typical web 2.0 site
[9:09] WhiteWizard Chemistry: :)
[9:10] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Right now everything is converted to Flash, so that you can play it on any machine
[9:10] WhiteWizard Chemistry: You can also request screencasts about a specific subject and people can vote on that
[9:11] You: have you had requests ww?
[9:11] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Again the hope is that others in the community who have expertise in the field could upload something
[9:11] Habermas Aya: What do you call 4 identical sisters again?
[9:12] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Anyway ... I will stop talking here and take questions.
[9:12] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Horace .. yes a few. Vector NTI is the #1 request
[9:12] WhiteWizard Chemistry: So any Vector NTI geeks feel free to post something
[9:12] WhiteWizard Chemistry: (bit of a lag at this end)
[9:12] You have offered friendship to Habermas Aya
[9:12] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Is everyone clear about what a screencast is? It is essentially screen capture, but in video form
[9:13] You: what software do you use for screencasting deepak
[9:13] Vishwaroop Baroque is Online
[9:13] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Horace .. I happen to have a free version of Camtasia thanks to a conference, but there is Camstudio (Free). Also Hari uses IShowU (I think)
[9:14] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Vishwaroop do you have anything to add?
[9:14] You: I use Camtasia because we have it at Drexel
[9:14] Berci Dryke: just a question: can we edit our screencasts?
[9:14] Troy McLuhan: Four identical sisters... hmm.... maybe a quadraisosorora?
[9:14] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Not yet ... you could probably upload a new version
[9:14] You: clones
[9:15] Samara Barzane is Offline
[9:15] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Some day hopefully .. :)
[9:15] Sumney Zenovka is Online
[9:16] Vishwaroop Baroque: sorry I dropped out- im back now..harijay co-culprit bioscreencast.com
[9:16] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Currently we have screencasts for OWL, UniProt and Galaxy there which might interest the bioinformatics crowd ... would love to see other types
[9:16] WhiteWizard Chemistry: like Horace's NMR one
[9:16] You: yes screencasts can be useful for explaining science
[9:16] Vishwaroop Baroque: Or the Unprot one from elizabeth phan
[9:17] Habermas Aya: It seems this slide is pointing to wikis
[9:17] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Ah yes forgot that
[9:17] Berci Dryke: If I would like to create screencasts, about how much it would cost to me?
[9:17] WhiteWizard Chemistry: we have a wiki too .. bioscreencastwiki.com, where we have information on how to do screencasting etc
[9:17] WhiteWizard Chemistry: It could cost you as much as nothing
[9:17] Berci Dryke: and the software?
[9:17] You: there is a 30 trial version of Camtasia
[9:17] Berci Dryke: oh
[9:17] You: 30 day
[9:17] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Camstudio is free as well
[9:18] Habermas Aya: do you use the wiki structure to create and collaborate via videos?
[9:18] You: but Camstudio has some problems
[9:18] Habermas Aya: A video wiki
[9:18] Vishwaroop Baroque: The screencast apps arr all listed onour wiki several of them ( esp for windows and linux ) are free..the few othe rones we have played with run from $20 to $300
[9:18] WhiteWizard Chemistry: The wiki is more of a knowledgebase right now, but you could. One problem is that not all wiki platforms support embeding
[9:19] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I think wikispaces supports video as does mediawiki which is what we use (Hari correct me if I am wrong)
[9:19] You: yes wikispaces supports
[9:19] Habermas Aya: yes wikispaces has great multimedia support
[9:19] WhiteWizard Chemistry: The cool thing is you could host your videos on bioscreencast and just embed them on your wiki
[9:19] WhiteWizard Chemistry: or any other website
[9:20] Vishwaroop Baroque: We are using mediawiki- the choice was based entirely to ease its adoption as a container for linked screencasts
[9:20] Habermas Aya: yes and wikispaces provides it as a service
[9:20] You: how many videos do you have now?
[9:20] Troy McLuhan: How is Bioscreencast funded?
[9:20] Habermas Aya: My people have found Wikipedia impossible
[9:20] WhiteWizard Chemistry: about 60-65?
[9:20] Berci Dryke: (the Camstudio link in the wiki is broken)
[9:20] WhiteWizard Chemistry: No funding
[9:20] WhiteWizard Chemistry: we are pretty much doing this from our own pockets
[9:20] WhiteWizard Chemistry: it's still very much an "after hours" project :)
[9:21] You: the problem with Camstudio is the Flash convertor is poor
[9:21] Habermas Aya: so the subject is screen casts, captures of computer screens?
[9:21] Habermas Aya: no conferencing?
[9:21] WhiteWizard Chemistry: yes .. habermas .. its about sharing how you use software or webservices. At least thats our current goal
[9:22] Sumney Zenovka is Offline
[9:22] Habermas Aya: have you rejected flash animations for any reason?
[9:22] Vishwaroop Baroque: Sorry for that broken link..its fixed now
[9:22] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I am not sure I understand the question?
[9:22] You have offered friendship to Katharine Martinek
[9:22] Vishwaroop Baroque: Camstduio is one of the better featured FREE screencasting apps for windows
[9:23] Habermas Aya: It seems to train software usage a flash animation is rather interactive
[9:23] You: can you upload the avi from Camstudio?
[9:23] Habermas Aya: I have used them for 10 years to make help systems on software
[9:23] Berci Dryke: I'm downloading it right now (you made me curious)
[9:23] WhiteWizard Chemistry: ah yes .. but then the barrier to creation is higher. We want to keep it informal
[9:23] WhiteWizard Chemistry: and it is a great idea
[9:24] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I don't think we would reject a flash animation
[9:24] Vishwaroop Baroque: Yes you can upload avi from camstudio our curent file size limit is set at 100MB so even a half hour screencast can be uploaded
[9:24] You: so it is fine then - the problem with Camstudio is their Flash convertor
[9:24] Lali Ewry: Can I make a request?
[9:24] Katharine Martinek is Online
[9:24] Lorri Momiji is Offline
[9:24] WhiteWizard Chemistry: sure thing
[9:25] Lali Ewry: I want to learn how to use R
[9:25] Lali Ewry: the statistics program
[9:25] Lali Ewry: :)
[9:25] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Anyone up for some R screencasts :)?
[9:25] Berci Dryke: :)
[9:25] Lali Ewry: hehe
[9:25] Habermas Aya: sure
[9:25] WhiteWizard Chemistry: or flash animations
[9:26] Berci Dryke: if there aren't any new questions, we should move to the next poster
[9:26] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Thanks everyone
[9:26] Vishwaroop Baroque: Well Lali it would be good to add the request to our request page
[9:26] You: thanks deepak
[9:26] Berci Dryke: Thank you, Deepak, I'm sure you'll get a lot of questions after the session :)
[9:26] Lali Ewry: I will check it out
[9:26] You: I'll be tyou have some converted people now :)
[9:26] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I sure hope so .. its fun
[9:26] You: I just have 2 slides here
[9:27] You: in my lab we have been using YouTube to record experiments
[9:27] You: often the students don't realize what is important to note in their notebook
[9:27] You: so I encourage them to link from our lab wiki to youtube
[9:27] You: these are examples
[9:28] You: one is an reaction flask
[9:28] You: and the other is a chromatography technique called the chromatotron
[9:28] You: these are not edited or produced in any way
[9:28] You: just rapidly done - the context would be in the wiki notebook
[9:29] You: sombody clicked it:)
[9:29] You: good - this slide shows what Deepak was saying about screencast of the analysis of a reaction
[9:29] You: I am analyzing NMR data
[9:30] You: and the bottom one is a video of docking our molecules in Second Life with Hiro's help
[9:30] You: by the way notice that the bottom recording has over 5000 views in the past year
[9:30] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Wow .. wonderful!!!
[9:30] You: so this might also get a way to get younger students interested in science
[9:31] You: since they are already on YouTube
[9:31] Berci Dryke: fantastic!
[9:31] You: any questiosn?
[9:31] Habermas Aya: How is the data structure, just ou wiki?
[9:31] Berci Dryke: but there isn't any scientific category in Youtube, I don't know why...
[9:31] You: true - this is under howto
[9:32] Lali Ewry: I am really curious about the NMR one, one of my colleagues is working on NMR metabolite analysis
[9:32] You: by the way if you click on my picture at the top it takes you to the usefulchem keyword search on youtube
[9:32] Habermas Aya: yes what is the metadata structures collaboration to get this informaiton out there
[9:32] You: Habermas - you mean how do people find it?
[9:32] Habermas Aya: Yes, finability and distribution
[9:32] Habermas Aya: not just search though
[9:33] Habermas Aya: 5,000 is what a film of a kid eating worms gets in a day lol
[9:33] You: well they are linked directly from our lab notebook wiki, where the context is fully explained
[9:33] You: so most people would find it through there probably
[9:33] Habermas Aya: and is that on wikispaces?
[9:33] You: yes on wikispaces - it rules!
[9:33] Habermas Aya: yes I have been a fan for a while
[9:33] You: CC license by default
[9:34] Habermas Aya: do you also use Del.icio.us or any bookmarking technology with tagging?
[9:34] You: i played around a bit with delicious but it didn't fit my needs enough to go wild on it
[9:34] You: so far....
[9:34] Habermas Aya: How about MySpace of FaceBook
[9:34] Habermas Aya: or
[9:35] You: I have been dragged into FaceBook lately
[9:35] You: by many of the people here:)
[9:35] You: I like it actually
[9:35] Habermas Aya: as do 100,000 people a day
[9:35] Troy McLuhan: LOL I feel the same way about Facebook... dragged in
[9:35] Habermas Aya: I feel the same way about SL
[9:35] You: yes SL was a though sell for me
[9:35] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Tag*Raises hand * guilty as charged
[9:36] You: until I attended a class of my colleage Beth Ritter-Guth
[9:36] You: once I saw that it actually worked I knew that I wanted to use it to teach
[9:36] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Horace sold me on SL
[9:36] WhiteWizard Chemistry: at Scifoo
[9:36] You: then I attended a poster session and became a convert of that
[9:36] Habermas Aya: Yes the problem with SL is findability
[9:36] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Horace .. what do you think are the barriers to video getting more commonly used the way you are leveraging it?
[9:36] Habermas Aya: which is the problem I see with these video silos
[9:36] You: yes Haber you have to have a reason to go to SL
[9:37] You: the barrier may be more related to the PI encouraging use
[9:37] You: of their students in the lab
[9:37] You: I think many students are open to it
[9:37] Habermas Aya: yes but the key to science teaching is going to be getting beyond the lab
[9:37] Berci Dryke: if there are no more questions, can we move on to SciVee's poster? (time is running fast)
[9:37] You: thanks Berci
[9:37] Berci Dryke: thank you, Jean-Claude!
[9:38] Habermas Aya: thank you
[9:38] You: scivee is busy...
[9:38] Berci Dryke: the speaker is sleeping :)
[9:38] You: sleeping on the job
[9:38] WhiteWizard Chemistry: :)
[9:38] Morrhys Graysmark is Online
[9:38] SciVee Chemistry: Quick question before I start… how are the slides forwarded?
[9:38] Berci Dryke: Apryl, please present SciVee to us!
[9:39] Berci Dryke: just click on the board
[9:39] You: mouse clic
[9:39] Vishwaroop Baroque: Sciveee is a great development in the science video space
[9:39] SciVee Chemistry: ok thanks
[9:40] SciVee Chemistry: Hello all, thank you for tuning in today…. This is a fun and interesting opportunity to be here and we look forward to becoming more involved in many manifestations of Science Web 2.0 as we evolve.
[9:40] SciVee Chemistry: Our site is still in Alpha, but we are so grateful to all who have shown an interest in our project and look forward to meeting the many requests and suggestions that the scientific community has sent us.
[9:41] Vishwaroop Baroque: how many people are behinf scivee
[9:41] SciVee Chemistry: SciVee is operated in partnership with the Public Library of Science (PLoS), the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC).
[9:41] SciVee Chemistry: hi Vishwaroop Baroque, there are about 9 people
[9:41] SciVee Chemistry: may I answer allt he questions at the end?
[9:42] You: sure sv
[9:42] Berci Dryke: as you wish
[9:42] SciVee Chemistry: ok, thank you
[9:42] SciVee Chemistry: SciVee allows scientists to communicate their work as a multimedia presentation incorporated with the content of their published article.
[9:42] SciVee Chemistry: Other scientists can freely view uploaded presentations and engage in virtual discussions with the author and other viewers. SciVee also facilitates the creation of communities around specific articles and keywords.
[9:42] SciVee Chemistry: Science is conservative and new generations are the major motivators of change.
[9:43] SciVee Chemistry: Like all you hear today...
[9:43] SciVee Chemistry: Phil Bourne, SciVee co-founder, noticed that MOST of his students were spending a lot of time on YouTube when they should be working on their thesis projects. As a professor, he often caught them in the act watching videos.
[9:43] SciVee Chemistry: and here... :)
[9:43] SciVee Chemistry: It occurred to Phil that they could be using YouTube to do science. But the content on YouTube can be difficult to find and is mixed with a wide range of other materials.
[9:43] SciVee Chemistry: Plus the quality or scientific viability is not assured.
[9:44] SciVee Chemistry: SciVee is Phil's solution to this problem.
[9:44] SciVee Chemistry: It is a video website dedicated to scientific content. We ensure quality content by promoting the upload of videos related to peer-reviewed articles" (this is different from ensuring high *production* quality.
[9:44] Emile Pintens is Online
[9:44] SciVee Chemistry: futhermore, phil has noticed that the open access movement in scientific publishing was initially well-received but that the scientific community has made little use of the possibilities that it offers
[9:45] SciVee Chemistry: plos has very high quality content and by associating with them, we hope to be more reputable
[9:45] Cary Flanagan is Online
[9:45] SciVee Chemistry: sorry I didn't keep my slides up with my presentation...
[9:46] SciVee Chemistry: if you have any questions please feel free to ask
[9:46] SciVee Chemistry: :)
[9:46] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Scivee ... is the goal always to be associated with publications?
[9:46] Berci Dryke: thank you! who can upload videos?
[9:46] SciVee Chemistry: anyone that has scientific content
[9:47] You: are there any screencasts on scivee?
[9:47] Vishwaroop Baroque: So it is then a Youtube for the sciences
[9:47] SciVee Chemistry: another important thing to remember is that we have two types of video content
[9:47] SciVee Chemistry: we accept video content that is relevant to a published peer reviewed paper
[9:48] You: what about editorially reviewed lik Nature Precedings?
[9:48] SciVee Chemistry: we have been called the "YouTube for scientists" by SlashDot
[9:48] SciVee Chemistry: we have also enabled the upload of videos unrealated to a paper
[9:49] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I am actually hoping that scientists posting to scivee get very creative with how they leverage video
[9:49] SciVee Chemistry: I am not familiar with Nature Precedings, Horace but we can look into it afterwards
[9:49] Troy McLuhan notes that the SciVee "Terms of Use" are still ambigious. On the one hand, they apply the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License, but then they say "SciVee applies the Creative Commons license to all of the video content on this site in order to make the work freely available for non-commercial purposes." (CC Attribution 3.0 allows commercial purposes.)
[9:49] SciVee Chemistry: I totally agree with youWhiteWizard
[9:50] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Will the onus on video production always be with the scientist uploading the video?
[9:51] SciVee Chemistry: We are soon to have a meeting with Phil about the ambigiuity of the terms... and speak with a lawyer. :)
[9:51] Vishwaroop Baroque: How about quality control and accuracy of content
[9:51] Troy McLuhan: Great
[9:52] Habermas Aya: How narrow is scientist defined
[9:52] Habermas Aya: I work in the social research
[9:52] SciVee Chemistry: Quality Control is another great concern
[9:52] You have offered friendship to Atina Davies
[9:52] SciVee Chemistry: we hope that the community will be interested in keeping the quality high and reporting abuse, somewhat like wikipedia retains validity
[9:53] Atina Davies is Online
[9:53] Habermas Aya: But again how narrow is the concept of scientists
[9:53] WhiteWizard Chemistry: I think your initial approach (typing it to published content is one good way of maintaining quality)
[9:53] Habermas Aya: is this restricted to hard scienctists or social thinkers who deal with science
[9:53] Habermas Aya: For example if I was to destruct a sceintific study would it be part of the site?
[9:54] SciVee Chemistry: Yes that is why we have separated the peer reviewed publications of pubcasts from the community video section on our site
[9:54] You: do you have a limit on length?
[9:55] Vishwaroop Baroque: Have you contacted the authors of a ny recent papers ? how has the response been
[9:55] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Habermas .. I sure hope social science is permissible .. it should be
[9:55] SciVee Chemistry: Since we want to retain quality, it is important for us to have the peer reviewed paper + video combinations in specified channels
[9:55] Habermas Aya: My concern is the wikipedia refernce where bias is used to insure quality
[9:55] SciVee Chemistry: additionally, pubcasts allow the author to present information that cant be included in a traditional article
[9:56] WhiteWizard Chemistry: Habermas ... in theory you could self police if the community gets strong enough. I think that is critical for anything in this space. Wisdom of crowds and all that.
[9:56] SciVee Chemistry: we hoep to meet the demand to keep the quality as high as possible
[9:57] Katharine Martinek is Offline
[9:57] Habermas Aya: sounds good
[9:57] You: We are almost out of time - thanks SciVee!
[9:57] Berci Dryke: great presentations and posters!
[9:57] Habermas Aya: yes
[9:57] Troy McLuhan: I guess you could have a paper on some results from a fluid dynamics simulation, and you could show an animated visualization
[9:57] SciVee Chemistry: it is great to know that you are also concerned with the quality of the science presented on SciVee
[9:57] You: If anyone wants to stick around you are welcome to look at any poster here
[9:57] You: Thre is a Nature Precedings poster in the front
[9:57] Berci Dryke: thank you for participating in this session!
[9:58] Stargazer Blazer is Online
[9:58] You: check for the next sessions on the wiki
[9:58] SciVee Chemistry: thank you everyone

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